11 May 2008

Food for Thought - Salvation

This question was posed in another online conversation and I thought I would ask to my dear readers here.
If you knew, without exception that God would save every man - that no one for any reason would miss heaven, would you feel delighted or disappointed? and why?
Please don't forget the why part - one way or another how would you feel. I look forward to your comments, and please check back here for reply comments from others, as well as myself. It will keep the "conversation" here going in a fluid fashion.

17 comments:

  1. Delighted!! We have so many people in our lives that we love dearly (they don't know the Lord) and can't imagine being permanently separated from them after this life.

    I know that humans are capable of horrible things and that I have not been at the receiving end of anything that awful. If I was, I admit that I might have a more difficult time being excited about the possibility of salvation for everyone. However, I know that there has been darkness in my own heart and deeds. I have been fortunate enough to be from a loving family that placed value on who I am. Others are not as fortunate.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Interesting question. I would be very happy if everyone were saved because that would mean that evil and separation from God didn't exist. Huge rejoicing would be happening. Anything could be possible with God.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Delighted doesn't even begin to describe it. I would be ecstatic!
    It would be proof that God's love has the power to overcome all evil, that God's grace and mercy are true. It would be the source of hope. Some think that the idea would cause people to live more evil because the result would be the same. I think that the realization that one is loved no matter what transforms and compels one to live a good life.

    ReplyDelete
  4. while ideally that may sound nice, realistically i think i'd be disapointed. besides, this question is completely absurd - everything about God and heaven and truth would be completely altered. i for one am grateful for freewill. and, i think that historically we can see that it is human nature to rebel against ... everything, really. i think even if we were guarenteed eternal happiness in the presence of God, we would decide there was something undesirable about heaven and set out for something better. there is something intriguing about the mystery of God, the unknown, the uncertainty of salvation... it keeps us working hard and striving for truth.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I know that it can't really be, but I would be so relieved for some dear ones who are currently lost!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Some quick replies to the previous comments -

    I too can hardly bear to think of people that I don't even really care about in the torment and torture of hell as I have understood it most of my life - not even to mention the thought of someone I love having to suffer in such a way eternally.

    Girl with the flower tattoo>> I will admit I looked up the word absurd because I wanted to know exactly what you were saying - absurd means ridiculously unreasonable - but it was just a conversation starter. A "what if" kind of question.
    I have to admit that when the question first came up I felt much like you - disappointed. Like, why does a monster like Jeffrey Dahmer get to go to heaven (insert the name of just about anyone here) and then I started to question why it would be any skin off of my back. I think your words - which echoed my own initial impulses - "working hard and striving for the truth" were telling.
    I am not understanding Jesus saying my yoke is easy and my burden is light to correspond with this so much anymore.
    But as I say here - most of my thoughts aren't fully formed - I am still in the process of pondering.

    I appreciate all the comments thus far. ♥ Julie

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi Julie and everyone. Wow, this is a fantastic question! In asking myself this, I feel thrilled, excited and want to cry with joy. I think it would be wonderful and, as Cynthia said, it would prove once and for all that God's love really is bigger than anything, even the 'lowest of the low' and that to me, speaks real life and love. If I feel the need to believe that certain people will 'perish' and 'go to hell,' I don't think I have fully matured in love. That's my opinion and what it says to me. I love your blog and am glad you're here!! Keep it coming, my friend. :o) ♥

    ReplyDelete
  8. I'm afraid d I would have to side with girl with a flower tattoo. To which I have to add, if God were to save everyone without exception, then that would mean we were all robots, and there was no free choice. That kind of goes counter to everything He tells us in His word, and negates the love that Jesus showed for us by dying on the Cross toredeem us from our sins. It would make it purposeless sacrifice. And it also negates our opportunity to show our love for Him by accepting the free gift of salvation, and expresing our love and gratitude by being obedient to His word.
    Those are just my thoughts.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi all - The comments are pretty interesting and thoughtful and I can tell where everyone is coming from and relate to so much of what is being said.

    Grace Walker>>It does sound too good to be true, doesn't it? I think that is what makes it so incomprehensible.
    Great-Granny>>I understand your thoughts and would say that I can relate on so many levels. One thing I would like to point out is that there are no "sides". I know it is just a figure of speech to say that your thoughts aligned - but all too often every issue discusses becomes a debate and a dividing line. Abiding in love with one another is often forgotten in our quest to be right, and find truth.
    As for the purposeless sacrifice - I think that when Christ died for all maybe that really meant everybody. I am not sure that is purposeless. As I said the issue is still pending. I do have to say - and admittedly it is potentially the flaw of our limited language - but the idea of the gift being received through obedience conjures up images of a dog sitting for his treat in my mind. I have a hard time seeing God in this "master" role anymore.

    I appreciate your thoughts - all of them - as I ponder this issue. They are making me dig deeper.

    ReplyDelete
  10. The obedience part is not my personal opinion. There are zillions of verses in both the Old and New Testaments that address it's importance. But the two verses in particular that came to mind when I wrote my comment were 1Samuel 15:22 - "To obey is better than sacrifice." And 2 John 6 - "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands."

    The Lord gave us those commands to protect us, and so we could experience the very best He has for us. And I know you're going to hate this analogy, but you did say this was a forum for the exchange of ideas, and this is mine.

    Among other things, I view the Word as God's instruction manual, just like I have instruction manuals for the products I purchase. And I know if I want to get the best use possible out of a product I have purchased, then I need to follow the instructions in the manual since it was written by the manufacturer who created the product and who is therefore the ultimate authority.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hello, I would not feel delighted or disappointed, I would feel awe and wonder. Jesus died to offer a healing for my sickness which is sin. That sickness is life threatening, it is hideous, it attacks us all in different ways, some of us get horrible fits of lying and cheating, some of us have hate and evil dripping from the wounds caused by this illness, some of us betray others while in our fevered delirium. We all have the same illness, it just manefests different symptoms in each of us, some more horrific to our sensebilities than others. The cure is the same for all of us, no matter what symptoms we demonstrate. Some of us are motivated to search for the cure ourselves, we will a cure and God in His graciousness has provided it, and we are fortunate to find it before this physical body dies. Others search for a cure and find false cures, medicines that help the symptoms be managable, but do not really offer whole healing, and some just do not search because they are so focused on the symptoms they can see nothing else. I am grateful to have found the "cure" in this lifetime, but if I were someone who found things to make the illness tolerable, but not healed I would be so grateful for a "miraculous" healing even if I did not find it on my own through my own efforts. And if I were one of those in so much pain that I could not even think about a cure, all I could do is writhe in pain and moan and be absolutely no good to anyone due to my self focus, I would be also grateful for this healing I did nothing to get, I would probably be even more grateful, because it was not on my radar, there for my will had nothing to do with it. Now if I would feel this way about my own healing why would I begrude it to others, who am I to judge those who are just like me, we are all the same, sin is not a respector of persons, why should grace be?

    Anna

    ReplyDelete
  12. Absolutely delighted! As others said, it would show the immense love of God.

    I do see the problem with everyone just being saved, like a robot with no choice. I like the scene toward the end of C.S. Lewis book The Last Battle, where every creature in the world is running through the door, past Aslan. At that moment they look upon him and either love him, or flee from him. I think it would be great if there was a moment like that for everyone who has ever lived, but may have never had the chance to see the incredible love of the Father while living on earth.
    Hope that made sense. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  13. It is me again, my first response was a positive one. On further pondering, I can also see this from the other side as well and see this as a negative thing. Using my same analogy, all of us ill with sin, if I, in my illness get cured in this life, and I come alongside others and nurse them, and offer them the cure and they reject it, and I spend my time suffering from their symptoms when there is no need, and they could also be free from this illness, I might be a bit resentful that even though I am cured I have to endure misery from others sickness when there is no need, and that resentment would make it harder to be happy and delighted knowing that they will get cured like me even though they chose to stay ill longer and abuse me or others with the illness.

    And again wonder and awe would be my feelings because this is just so amazing either way and the implications are far reaching, and it is not cut and dried, but there are so many variables, such as when we get cured, the different symptoms we all endure in our own self and in comming in contact with others and their symptoms. Some of us only get a runny nose and a sore throat, some of us are covered in boils, we ached to the depth of our bones, we are constantly nauseus, and feel on the verge of death constantly with no releif, of course your symptoms will make a difference in how you feel. Only the cure can help you see things clearly and freely without the haze of symptoms to cloud.

    Anna

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hey, chica, I'll be back to read up soon and answer your burning question.

    G*G*

    ReplyDelete
  15. I have to say that I would be delighted to know that God could and would fulfill His word in saving every single person. That would mean that Jesus actually accomplished that which the Father sent Him to do. ITim 4:10: "...we have fixed our hope on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all men, especially of those who believe." Col 1:20" "And God purposed that through the Son all things should be completely reconciled back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, the Father made peace by means of the blood of His cross." II Cor 5:19 "It was God in Christ, reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against men their trespasses. . . ." God is loving enough and powerful enough to fulfill His will. Man's will can never cancel out or overide His will. Since it is His will to save everyone, He will save everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  16. WOW, extremely well said Catherine!!! My daughter asked me to copy and send that to her as well. How beautifully encouraging.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Delighted! Mainly because I don't understand how we as people can say we love God with all our hearts and believe that His ways are so much higher than our ways, and His thoughts our thoughts; and then think we can know exactly what God means when He says certain things that we can't quite understand (scriptures for example). It's like we give Him no credit for being as magnificent and incredible as He is. I don't think we understand how many limits we put on God with our limited thinking. Just because we are, doesn't mean He is (limited). :) I personally believe that every person will indeed be reconciled, because I believe God is that big and that good. I don't see how anything else lines up with the nature of Christ that we so agree with under any other subject. Kudos to you for having the strength to stand up and bring a topic up most abhor or shy away from, because of the persecution. Wonderful post....

    ReplyDelete

Awaiting your words......
♥ Juls ♥